3d Chat with Shared Gestures for 2.136

[thyme]

& Alain, Isa, Peter, vnomad Sorry for taking so long to reply & thanks so much for the screen shots
I had one of the best days I have had in a long time today because my sister was down here on the farm with her new 1 year old boy and because early in the morning before I lost my internet connection I could see everyone who had failed to log now were able too in the night
What a contrast to how I felt when it looked like nothing was working lol
While we slept here I can see you had a party inside Ep's computer (the server was running on her computer)
Funny I cant find my chat logs from the client but the server logs everything
It would be nice to meet you Alain and Peter and Isa but the problem Alain is getting here to the farm, I don't drive because there is no need for me, I am an internet recluse! lol so I am not use to meeting lots of people
But I could give everyone a virtual tour of the farm by making a video and uploading it to youtube
Its very cold right now typing at 1:42 am, we are moving into winter so I must get into bed but I will answer any unanswered questions later
many thanks dear friends

PS the server is running again but Gil the B could not log in for some reason

[Peter]

Hy Thyme,

Today I'm getting again that error message and Bill Gate's shutdown pop-up ... it's something about getHostByAdress() or so ... ... but all happens too fast.

Lol, anyway, I'll keep on trying, probably your IP did change while you were in the garden, feeding the opossums.

cYa at seamless3d.

Peter

[thyme]

Thanks Peter
I have just checked the IP again and can not see what's wrong there
There is too little info to be sure of anything yet but I am now guessing that when it fails it fails for all and when it works it works for all, I prefer this to it works for some fails for others because when what ever the problem is gets fixed it should work for all always
I wrote an ultra simple Visual Basic 2d chat back in 2005 for marco that can send text to the server using the command line (you just type and press enter) it does not receive yet but does send.
If anyone has VB 2005 installed please try running this code:

Code: Select all

'Seamless3d VB chat

'Copyright (C) 2005-2008 Graham John Perrett (AKA thyme) thyme@seamless3d.com www.seamless3d.com

'Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this
'software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software
'without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify,
'merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to
'permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following
'conditions:

'The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or
'substantial portions of the Software.

'THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
'INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
'PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE
'LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT
'OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR
'OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.



Imports System.Net
Imports System.Net.Sockets
Imports System.Text


Module Module1
        Sub Main()
        'Dim server As String = "127.0.0.1"
        Dim server As String = "144.138.47.243" 'must match server IP
        Dim hostEntry As IPHostEntry = Dns.GetHostEntry(server)
        Dim addressList As IPAddress = hostEntry.AddressList(0)
        Console.WriteLine("IP " + addressList.ToString())
        Dim endPoint As IPEndPoint = New IPEndPoint(addressList, 7778)
        Dim socket As Socket = New Socket(endPoint.AddressFamily, SocketType.Stream, ProtocolType.Tcp)

        Dim returnValue As Integer
        Dim bytes(255) As Byte

        socket.Connect(endPoint)
        If (socket.Connected) Then
            'change "vb_thyme" to your nickname
            socket.Send(Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(Chr(1) + "vb_thyme" + Chr(0) + "http://www.seamless3d.com/wrl/test_mu/nurbs_patch_av.smls" + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0) + Chr(0)))
            returnValue = socket.Receive(bytes)
            socket.Send(Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(Chr(5) + Chr(bytes(1)) + Chr(0) + "vb_thyme running" + Chr(0)))
            Dim input As String
            Do
                input = Console.ReadLine()
                socket.Send(Encoding.ASCII.GetBytes(Chr(5) + Chr(bytes(1)) + Chr(0) + input + Chr(0)))
            Loop Until input = "exit"
            socket.Close()

        End If
    End Sub
End Module


If this simple test works when the seamless client fails then it would seem I have some bug in the seamless client.
Trying different things typically leads to the problem eventually

[thyme]

Arrrg, Just realised we are about to go offline and we are having a planned powercut by the electricity people soon after

[Alain]

what have we to do with all that , Thyme , scuse ?

Code: Select all
'Seamless3d VB chat

'Copyright (C) 2005-2008 Graham John Perrett (AKA thyme) thyme@seamless3d.com http://www.seamless3d.com

etc etc

sending it as a mail ??

but to who ? lol

scuse , I am happy to help ,
but I know nothing in VB or oppossums

[thyme]

Thanks Alain , but this is only for if you already have VB installed because you would need to change the IP address directly in the VB file each time the IP changes.
Yesterday I wrote a simple C++ equivalent that is much like this ultra simple VB chat client that uses just a consol window but am thinking I will make it so that it can receive chat as well as send it and make it so you can set the IP address using a bat file.
The idea is to have something as simple as possible that can still communicate with my server so that the number of variables to go wrong are kept to a minium. This would help for testing things out.
I will upload the C++ exe soon so that you don't have to compile anything but I am thinking now more about getting my server to run online. This would make it much easier for me to debug for a server that has a different IP address to my own.
I may also try making the VB version work as an exe too because it uses a different way to program and so this can help in revealing clues if it behaves differently.

[thyme]

The seamless server also worked right out of the box. I ran it here on the home puter (the IP almost never changes), and put the smls multiuser world pointing to this IP at afoto.com. Works just fine, thanks!

thanks very much for this feedback vnomad, it is very frustarting for me that it works so well and seems robust being so simple but being stuck with it running on my dial up connection. I have spent a lot of time this last week trying to find out how can I upload it to my seamless3d site but obviously I dont know what words to search for in google. (I dont speak server speak well )

I sent this question to the ovh customer suport:

Hi
I would like to know if I can upload a simple chat server written in C++ to my ovh site http://www.seamless3d.com and have it run continuously from there.
I have a 60gp account and it states here: http://www.ovh.co.uk/products/60gp.xml the 60gp plan supports C scripting.
Where can I find out more about this?
How do I upload and run it?

Regards
thyme

But by looking at my first reply (which was in french) I dont think it got to the people who would know the answer

A. How do you close the chatbox without shutting Seamless down?

There is no feature for this yet sorry, I will add more options to the chat box soon as I get the chat server and client working reliably in a minimalist way.
For the time being I recommend closing seamless down before attempting to log in again or to use it for modelling offline because I have not yet had time to test all the different scenarios that can arise.

B. The initial server/av URL seem hardcoded to your domain, could this be made configurable?

Sure it would be easy to make any of these fields be saved if they were in the current Settings node but I am thinking I will add a Chat Settings node that will be dedicated to chat fields.

C. Sometimes I use dyndns.org to have free DNS service for my home computer as vardo.dyndns.org. The Seamless server appears to take only a numeric IP. It would be nice if it could make a (dyn)DNS query, get the current IP, and use that. This would make it very easy for hobbyists to run a multiuser SMLS world at home. Personally I use "BarracudaDrive" here at home to run web services.

I will look into doing this in time, thanks

D. Do you have plans to implement collaborative worldbuilding? Since all visitors already have the world in their seamless modelers it may be possible to merge whatever nodes they add in close to realtime. (presubably with some measure of coordination to avoid chaos and apocalypse now

I have thought about this over the years, just making it so one can move 3d objects about would be pretty simple I would imagine and I would probably start here. Making it so every function in seamless can be shared also sounds doable (I have heard blender can do this?) but I would imagine this would be much more challenging. Right now my goal is just to make seamless work as a multi user system in a reliable way using it's own native environment. One goal I have had set in my mind for some time is to get all of the features of techuelife island working inside seamless (at least in a dedicated seamless browser)
I need to get protos working (considering that one can already log in with as any number of instances of the same avatar it should not be difficult to do the same for protos)
It will be nice to make it so that some people can ride the train while others stay on the land. When I did this in blaxxun I moved the world and kept the train still to avoid internet lag but some objected to being automatically sucked out of their houses to ride the train whenever someone said the command "enge start"
As a result I stopped this and then many others complained who use to loved riding the train.
What's great about not being at the mercy of using software not written by my self is I can add any feature I like that seems important to me to have

[thyme]

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : I had been unable to succeed logging in the last days. Today it works.
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : Yas
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : cYa

the next day:

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : Hello! nobody here?

It would be good if I had a very loud sound that would play much like a telephone bell to alert me so that when ever someone joins my server I can join them
This might solve one of the problems blaxxun alternative chat sites have, Usually if someone logs into ABnet there is no one else to chat to and so you have a catch 22 situation.


CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : Just came to say hello to Thyme's code
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : cYa

thanks much for continuing to test the server out Peter

I have had a pretty unproductive week this week trying different things out, This next week I am going to try playing with PHP it might be slower than C++ on the computer but I would guess it would be faster than my rat chewed dial up connection if its running from my site instead of my computer.
I wont give up on the C++ server, hopefully working with PHP might help me know more what I need to know about running servers online in general.

[thyme]

CLIENT_REQUEST_TO_JOIN 31 : alain=http://dumenieu.free.fr/vrml/avatarspublic/zenor.wrl orientation=0 1 0 0 position=0 0 0
recvLen == INVALID_SOCKET

recvLen == INVALID_SOCKET means u loged out (crashed)

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : the avatar must be a smls file lol crazy hyme !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : I tried a wrl
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : lol

Sorry for that Alain

I have not added any code to crash you if you use VRML
VRML avs should work if they use VRML nodes that seamless natively supports except Blaxxun Avatar Protos (whether they are in smls files or wrl files) fail for some reason.
JavaScript scripts wont run (unless they are converted to SMLSScript which is designed to be easy to convert from JavaScript) but they should not cause a crash.
Avatar studio avs will need to be imported first for a number of different reasons.
Seamless is well equipped for importing avatar studio avs, this makes avatar studio (which is not strictly VRML BTW) a program that can be easily used for both blaxxun and seamless worlds

Thanks for your entertaining comments Alain and for your help

[thyme]

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : avatar socket
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : i have peter
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : and alain too
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : lol, isa is an expert in seamless
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : )

Lol reading about Isa playing with the avatar sockets was funny to read

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : how do I get the avatar socket?
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : and we can change it i suppose
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : in the tree scene
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : wher is this soket ??
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : right
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : okay, wait
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : open arbre de scene
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : i have 4 bonjommes
isa gesture=1
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : yes
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : ahhhhh .... ouiiiiiii
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : click on
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : looolll
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : wow to move them ??
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : lol
Peter gesture=2
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : but i have changed alain now, lol
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : loolll
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : alain, toi est tombee?
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : i can moove you too
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : hahahahah
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : ah I understand !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk*
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : in the pannel !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : ahahahahahhaha
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : great !!!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : lol, thyme must make all this st5uff shared
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : you cabn buildt too
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : wait
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : loooll
Peter gesture=1

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : yes, but people don't see what you build ... that is what thyme must do
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : argh
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : zut
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : I changed your name lol peter !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : ahahaha
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : he will do it, for sure )
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : too funny
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : !!!
isa gesture=2

CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : thyme we want see what the another people buildt !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT Peter : my name??? don't touch my name!!!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : this man is crazy lol , THyme !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : lol alain
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT isa : !!
CHAT_FROM_CLIENT alain : what a guy

It would be great to share making stuff but my main goal right now is to make the chat and seamless as a modeller reliable
Much of what seamless gets blamed for in being hard to use I would guess are the undocumented bugs that pray on beginners
I don't waste time documenting bugs because its about as much work to document most of them as it is to fix them

But seamless is workable for those who persevere The robot makes it, self verifiable.
I wrote seamless from scratch so I understand it well and there are no politics holding it back

Check out Isa's wonderful lily of the valley (muguet) (she made using seamless) on the Louise forum:
http://closed.forumactif.com/worlds-vrm ... .htm#66189

[Alain]

indeed we had great fun there
very funny to read all that

keep on building , Thyme ( il I can say ) ,
it is a so original chat

( I was a bit excited LOOL )

[thyme]

I found out where to post my question and got an answer:

http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=273

It is the answer I feared I would get but I am glad I got an answer.
I now feel a little less in the dark in regards to what is available when you don't have a dedicated server.
This makes the idea of running a server from your own computer more attractive.
Perhaps I will make it so that seamless3d can behave as both client and server.
Much like how the lock in blaxxun is used, one computer could be designated to act as the server and if the person who owns the server leaves, someone else automatically takes over as the acting server.
There is not a great difference between the server and client, both the seamless3d server and the client currently have information on every client such as it's name, avatar url, position and orientation.
Having each client able to act also as a server would have many of the advantages of peer to peer without the inefficiency.
It would be good too like Peter and Rick have said to use a combination of PHP to do some of the work a central server would do in keeping the community together.
This approach would hopefully allow anyone on the net to be able to open a multi user world easily without any cost.
And using only free open source software

[thyme]

http://forum.revemonde.net/viewtopic.ph ... 339#p17339

[thyme]

Thanks for the microChat link tutancamon
http://closed.forumactif.com/3d-faq-and ... .htm#66019
http://www.phptoys.com
I just tried installing it on my site (which involves no more than uploading a few files):
http://www.seamless3d.com/microChat
Works a treat and there is hardly any code to figure out how it works
I only began coding my first PHP file a few days ago so this example should be good for me.
I made a PHP client using sockets be able to log into the Seamless3d server running from my home computer but when I try running it online It does not work sadly. I read online you may have to enable your PHP settings to enable sockets, I would guess you would have your own dedicated server to be able to do this so this is not going to be much use to us who cant aford a dedicated server and if we could there would not be a problem I could run the seamless3d server directly on it without a problem. So perhaps PHP sockets is not the way to go, this microChat chat does not use sockets so I will study it well
I am thinking more and more plain peer to peer might be a better way to go for seamless, at least for now with some help from PHP. I don't have to abandon my specialised server, in fact there is very little difference (code wise) between server/client and a peer to peer.
I have been thinking that the advantages of peer to peer is it would keep things simple in who joins and leaves the world.
I have been looking at the approach IMVU messenger uses. I am only on dialup so I cant get very far with it but from what I have seen it should not need much bandwidth at all, In fact it should need less than blaxxun because avatars don't walk freely in the world. You have points (something like viewpoints) in the world that you can click on to position your avatar in a world. This approach should be friendly for slow internet connections and you have the advantage of avoiding the problems of navigating avatars. Much of the time people spend in navigating an avatar is getting it so it is not in the same location as another avatar or getting unstuck from some awkward location.
With this clickable viewpoint oriented approach I would guess peer to peer would work fine for 20 avs in a world and with ADSL why would there ever be a problem? (for chat only so many people can speak at once and be understood)
Later I would like to make it better than how IMVU does it, I would like to make it so that the avs walk from view point to viewpoint using much of the technology I developed for my hoppies so that they can walk on uneven terrain with the feet connecting to the land in a more realistic way. From what I have seen of second life avatars in youtube movies (how their feet slide) they should look better than them.
Although IMVU seems to be well developed software I think one of the big things that attracts people to this platform is the art work. Although the avatars are low poly they are stylish and the gestures look very sophisticated. This is all down to the artist

[Alain]

This is all down to the artist

we need a place for artworks
with no shops , no jails , no majors etc

good luck , Thyme